Welcome to True North Outdoor Hunting Forum - British Columbia and Beyond

It looks like you haven't created an account yet. Why not take a minute to register for your own free account now? As a member you get free access to all of our forums and posts plus the ability to post your own messages, communicate directly with other members and much more.

Register Log in

Alberta county calls for independence referendum

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
Wheatland County in southern Alberta passed a resolution on Tuesday demanding changes in confederation – that if rejected by Ottawa – would trigger a referendum on Alberta’s independence.

The motion calls for the province’s withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan, a start to collecting it’s own income tax, the end of equalization payments, Senate reform, replacing the RCMP and better control over immigration into Alberta.
Wilson’s resolution says if those issues aren’t dealt with then a referendum on independence would be held Oct. 18, 2021.

 

NAHMINT II

Moderator, Backwoods Barista
Messages
3,564
Reaction score
2,625
Location
MID-ISLAND/Nanaimo area
look how Quebec got on a federal election ballot........i remember the terrorists /murders in quebec too !!!!
but thats quebec, . how short some memories are.
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
'Marching towards separation': Wexit Alberta applies to become registered party


 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
An Independent Alberta would Make BC an annexed Province. Are you hearing this Whore-Gone???? Time to get on board or GET OUT and make room for a leader with

1572996088079.png
 

NAHMINT II

Moderator, Backwoods Barista
Messages
3,564
Reaction score
2,625
Location
MID-ISLAND/Nanaimo area
'' REPUBLIC of the WEST.'' has a nice ring to it !!!!!!!!!
to the NAY sayers, just what do we get for our tax dollars!!!! why do we ship our coal to china!!!
oh ,ya, so we don't burn it here and polute !!!! ummmm,liberal type thinking.......

where is all our export oil going..... why,its so we pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for our own oil instead of building a couple refineries here, we spent the money paying out terrorists, the AGA KAHN foundation, HAITI and ITALY.....
Oh ,ya, almost forgot $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to quebec, so they can call us GOD D**N -English and make it illegal to use english as a business language wtf, is quebec not part of canada still?????? anyhow, you get my meaning !!!
 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
West separates the Columbia Treaty would become Null and Void, do we renegotiate? Tell The USA to pound sand?(sorry GS and FC) or prepare for US troops at our borders?. As the old Chinese curse goes, "Yuàn nǐ shēnghuó zài
yǒuqù de shídài"
 
Last edited:

Head Lice

Long-Time Member
Messages
1,424
Reaction score
654
Location
Blue house ....
What if . . . .
Alberta stops all Transfer/Equalization payments. How about Federal Income Tax payable? Alberta refuses to participate in the f'd up Constitution Agreement of 1982 . . . .
Alberta gets nothing out of Confederation . . . . gives lots.
Alberta wouldn't need to vote to leave . . . . why leave at all, just refuse to participate. Transfer/Equalization payments to Ottawa would certainly be better spent in Alberta on pensions and infrastructure.

Big 'if' here . . . . if the tweedle-dee / tweedle-dumb act in Victoria was gone, and LML/VI folks realized how $$ are generated . . . via pipeline, the west would be better off.
Need a cup of coffee !
 

NAHMINT II

Moderator, Backwoods Barista
Messages
3,564
Reaction score
2,625
Location
MID-ISLAND/Nanaimo area
West separates the Columbia Treaty would become Null and Void, do we renegotiate? Tell The USA to pound sand?(sorry GS and FC) or prepare for US troops at our borders?. As the old Chinese curse goes, "Yuàn nǐ shēnghuó zài
yǒuqù de shídài"
Hell JIM, I would worry more about our chinese ''cousins'' taking over B.C than our American BROTHERS!!!! :OH-OH::harumph: I mean,look at what they own now. look at their presents in lower mainland.....GEEZ, they will come in to ''PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS''. !!!:Really Mad:
 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
No worries there my friend, The US would never allow the Chinese to be on their northern boarders so we would have allies south of the Medicine Line. Reluctant allies but allies all the same, at least until the threat had been dealt with.
 

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,778
Reaction score
3,574
Location
Mission B.C.
Although I'm in agreement that the west is not getting a fair shake, especially considering
the transfer payments, Federal fisheries, and the whole oil pipeline fiasco, I'm cautious and
reluctant to eagerly jump on board Wexit Alberta's drive for separation without reading where,
how, and what they have to offer in regard to a taxation system, pensions, and fair share of
royalties from their planned oil exports.
 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
1 county in Alberta does not a country make. But if enough force gets behind it it's leverage for a new deal for the west. As mentioned look what happens every time Quebec beats the separation drum.
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
“We have to speak truth to power. The fact is we are losing tens of billions of dollars of national wealth right now by our inability to deal with those problems in Western Canada.”

There have been repeated warnings recently about Western alienation amid frustration in oil-rich provinces as Canada struggles to add new export pipeline capacity. The regional divide was illustrated in last month’s federal election when the Liberal Party was re-elected without any seats in Alberta or Saskatchewan.

“We’re talking about a massive transfer of wealth from the pocket of Canadians to the United States of America,” McKenna said. “And right now, Alberta is the canary in the coal mine on this, and we need to listen to them.”


 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
The way Ottawa has it set up we will never have the representation to force change Federally even with a single party sweep of the west. this is NOT the "Unknown Western Territories".

1573068627245.png
 

Bow Walker

RUFF N TUMBLE "LEGEND" IN MY OWN MIND.
Messages
39,338
Reaction score
3,895
Location
6000 Kms Away From Home.
The reality of this whole venture is that there just is not enough population density to make it work.

Les Quebecois (unfortunately) do have the population numbers to be able to swing that particular club.
 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
True but Quebec does not have the industrial/agriculture/mineral/forestry and access to eastern markets, that a Western Republic has in spades. IF and that's a big IF, the 4 Western Provinces were to demonstrate solidarity and stand up then the "Great" White? Father:yeah, right: in Ottawa, they would stand and deliver.
 

CanuckShooter

Wapiti Killer
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
1,379
Location
Giscome, BC, well close to there
True but Quebec does not have the industrial/agriculture/mineral/forestry and access to eastern markets, that a Western Republic has in spades. IF and that's a big IF, the 4 Western Provinces were to demonstrate solidarity and stand up then the "Great" White? Father:yeah, right: in Ottawa, they would stand and deliver.
I think this time around things are going to shift OR we will see this country torn apart. That is my take on it.
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
Good. I'll have a story and pix to share once we get the camera operational again...
Should be worth the wait methinks...

Cheers
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
If Alberta turns separatist, the Rest of Canada is in big trouble

Holding all the power now, Albertans would get richer while the balance of the country would get poorer


Canadians don’t value our fossil fuel economy, which explains why so many are OK to trash pipelines and see Alberta tank. Only 19 per cent think it more important to pursue oil and gas development than to go green and regulate oil, according to EKOS polling. That 19 per cent figure shrinks to eight per cent for Canadians who consider themselves Liberals, six per cent for NDPers and two per cent for those who vote Green, meaning that politicians of most stripes have no interest in alienating their supporters to help Alberta’s energy economy recover.


Those figures also explain why Alberta’s sense of alienation is on the rise. According to Ipsos, fully 62 per cent believe Alberta “does not get its fair share from Confederation” (up from 45 per cent two decades ago), 46 per cent feel more attached to their province than to their country (up from 39 per cent) and 34 per cent “feel less committed to Canada than I did a few years ago” (up from 22 per cent). Just 18 per cent of Albertans believe “the views of western Canadians are adequately represented in Ottawa.”


One-quarter of Albertans now believe Alberta “would be better off if it separated from Canada,” a number that may well rise if the provincial economy founders, and would certainly rise if Albertans realized that they need Canada a lot less than Canada needs them. Without Alberta’s wealth and foreign-exchange earnings, the living standard of Canadians outside Alberta would drop and the Canadian dollar would plummet, likely leading to inflation as the cost of imports rose. Albertans, in contrast, would see their affluence rise and, because oil sales are denominated in U.S. dollars, Alberta would be largely insulated from the inflation to its east and west.


Those pooh-poohing independence claim Alberta, being land-locked, would be held hostage if it were an independent state. Those scoffers have it backwards. Alberta is today held hostage, its pipelines east and west kiboshed by its fellow Canadians. If Alberta were independent, its newfound bargaining power would certainly cause the Rest of Canada to capitulate, and speed to completion any and all pipelines Alberta needed to either ocean.


An independent Alberta would control access to its land mass as well as the skies above it, requiring Canada’s federal government to negotiate rights for, say, Vancouver-to-Toronto flights over Alberta airspace. Canada would also need Alberta’s agreement to have trains and trucks cross its now-international borders. Threats of tolls and tariffs could abound as needed to chasten those perceived to be wronging Alberta, whether Quebec, which exports dairy to B.C., grain interests that now commandeer rail to the detriment of Alberta’s oil shippers, or the B.C. ports that depend on commodities going to and from points east. Anyone thinking that Alberta would be unable to police its borders needs to be reminded that, for the past 70 years, Alberta’s patrols have made it the continent’s only rat-free jurisdiction.


The Rest of Canada has other reasons to avoid pushing Albertans to the point of separation. Should Alberta become a credible threat to leave the Canadian federation, the debate would likely embolden Quebec separatists, make Canada seem unstable and scare off both domestic and international investment. Alberta would have the United States as a bargaining chip, too: Manifest Destiny, the U.S. dream of controlling the entire continent, would experience a revival at the prospect of welcoming Alberta as its 51st state, strengthening America’s influence over the world’s energy markets and, in particular, over a now energy-dependent Rest of Canada.


While history suggests Alberta would almost surely be better off outside Canada — Singapore, Norway, Taiwan, the Czech Republic and other breakaways have generally thrived — divorce would be messy, costly in the short term and unnecessary. The Supreme Court of Canada made separation plausible — separation negotiations would start as soon as a clear majority of Albertans in a clearly stated referendum voted to leave Canada. It wouldn’t take too many more blows to Alberta’s economy and Albertans’ pride for the 46 per cent who now see themselves more as Albertans than Canadians to become 56 per cent or even 66 per cent, figures setting Canada on a path to dismemberment.


The last time Alberta was pushed toward the brink, it argued that “the West wants in.” The next time it might argue that “Alberta wants out.” The Rest of Canada needs to understand it has no hand to play if it continues to fuel Albertans’ discontent. If we don’t come to have regard for the needs of Alberta, Alberta will come to have no regard for Canada.

 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
Western alienation and its independence cousin very real


Accept for a moment the Toronto media narrative, spun through the Laurentian echo chamber in Ottawa, that “RedNexit” is the latest protest from the hicks living “out” West, unhappy with the outcome of the federal election.

Some of the impetus for Western political separatism comes from a legitimate sense of alienation, wrapped in a visceral dislike for a prime minister who cavalierly disregards the Prairie resource economy, agriculture and extractive industries.

At the same time, Justin Trudeau makes it clear that he has no respect for the people whose hard work and taxes fund an equalization formula in need of change and even the national government’s Canada Pension Plan (CPP), which Quebec opted out of 50 years ago, that disproportionately taxes more youthful Prairie employees and their employers.

Ditto for an inefficient and costly carbon tax that harms families and businesses in Saskatchewan and Alberta more profoundly than others. Compounding Prairie alienation are Bills C-69 and C-48, passed into law, which deliberately create high completion risk, uncertainty and delay, and a disincentive for anyone to invest in energy projects.

And there is the Trudeau government’s wilful strategy, illustrated by pipeline cancellations and delays, to sacrifice oil and energy development on the altar of climate politics and the “new green” economy.

To be sure, some of the separatists — but far from all — are the same cranks who jump on the first floats in a grievance parade, or spend their time shadow boxing the globalists of the New World Order or hooking up with Max Bernier’s People’s Party of Canada.
But it would be a fatal mistake for Canada to dismiss a real and profound sense of alienation which goes deeper into the ranks of thoughtful policy-makers, premiers past and present, and community leaders — not yet separatists — who are simply fed up with a Canada that no longer works for us.

An Ipsos poll this week can be read as alienation and separatism being rungs on the same ladder. The statement “Canada is more divided than ever” finds agreement among 79 per cent of Albertans and 77 per cent of Saskatchewanians. On the view that it is better for our provinces to politically split away from Canada, 27 per cent of Saskatchewan people agree, as do 33 per cent in Alberta.

While some promote separatism, others of us who prefer Canada see an opportunity for a strong, purposeful and resilient Prairie pushback against policies from Ottawa that must change.

Some Western organization — perhaps the Buffalo Project, Canada West Foundation or other — should be prepared to convene a conference in the next 100 days to openly examine issues and canvas options available to Saskatchewan and Alberta.

In no particular order, review the equalization formula and re-examine some of the 2001 Alberta Agenda, or so-called “firewall” options, including opting out of CPP and establishing provincial pension plans; taking control from the federal government of all tax collection and immigration; resuming full provincial responsibility for health care policy; cancelling RCMP contract policing and creating a provincial police force — all of which have been done for decades by Quebec.

Also, a conference could invite political and legal academics, constitutional scholars and experts in international law to canvas other issues, including but not limited to: Canada’s Clarity Act; the constitutional issues underlying a unique or distinct relationship with the Prairie West within the federation; the domestic and international legal requirements for limited or full political independence should the relationship with Canada deteriorate; the scope of important consultations required to address or renegotiate pre-existing treaties and inherent treaty rights with Indigenous people; and post-secession access to markets and trade.

In addressing Prairie alienation, Trudeau knows what he has to do — or, more properly, stop doing. If he does not meaningfully address Western concerns it shouldn’t be said that all those unhappy people “out” West are going to any longer sit idle or silent.

We aren’t.

 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
Kenney announces 'firewall'-style panel in pursuit of a 'fair deal' for Alberta

We've had it with Ottawa's indifference to this adversity. Albertans have been working for Ottawa for too long, it's time for Ottawa to start working for us'
Red Deer, Alta. — Alberta Premier Jason Kenney outlined on Saturday the mandate for a new panel that will study what the province should demand as a “fair deal for Alberta” in Confederation, including looking at ways that will take back provincial powers that have been ceded to Ottawa.

At a speech Saturday afternoon in Red Deer, Kenney said the panel would answer questions including whether or not Alberta should pull out of the Canada Pension Plan and form its own plan instead, create a provincial police force instead of relying on the RCMP for rural policing, and opt out of some cost-sharing programs with the federal government.
As well, Kenney said the province will seek to retroactively lift the cap on fiscal stabilization back to 2014-15 to receive a $1.75-billion equalization rebate. Alberta has continued to be a net contributor to equalization despite enduring tougher economic times than other provinces over the last five years, but the province has said the cap has left it unable to claim meaningful fiscal stabilization funds.

“We’ve had it with Ottawa’s indifference to this adversity. Albertans have been working for Ottawa for too long, it’s time for Ottawa to start working for us,” Kenney declared in his speech to the Alberta Manning Networking Conference. “We Albertans will not lose our heads, we are practical people, we are not unreasonable people. Nothing we are asking for is unreasonable.”

The speech — which Kenney said he was up all night writing in the premier’s office — drew heavily on longstanding conservative ideas for strengthening Alberta’s position within Confederation. Some of them were detailed years ago in the Alberta Agenda, informally known as the “firewall letter,” published in the National Post in 2001 and written by Stephen Harper (before he went on to become a federal party leader), then academic and future Alberta cabinet minister Ted Morton, and other Alberta conservative luminaries.

Kenney was giving the keynote address at the Saturday conference, which was themed “What Next?” and was put on by the Manning Centre for Building Democracy. Right-wing politicians, activists and thinkers had gathered at the conference to map out whether a road to victory for conservatism exists in Canada, after the recent federal election, or whether an increasingly alienated west needs to consider other options. Separatism sentiment in Alberta and Saskatchewan has been growing louder since the Liberals were able to hang on to a minority government in Ottawa.

Kenney took the stage to loud applause in Red Deer behind a lectern emblazoned with the slogan “A Fair Deal Now,” with Canada and Alberta flags beside him.

Central to Kenney’s pitch as leader of the United Conservative Party and as premier of Alberta has been drawing from Quebec’s playbook to get more power provincially, wresting it away from Ottawa.

In his speech, Kenney went through the troubled times in Alberta, arguing the major economic crisis in Alberta right now can’t simply be blamed on lower oil prices, or shale booms in North Dakota or other global factors. Rather, he lambasted the Liberal government’s “record of assaults” on Alberta, such as through over-regulation and its ambivalence about the province’s oil and gas economy, which have driven investment out of the province, seeking more hospitable jurisdictions such as the U.S.

“It’s not about prices, it’s about policy,” Kenney declared.

He pointed to the effect of the downturn on the people of the province: the exploding opioid crisis, rising crime and violence, rampant bankruptcies, and the increase in the rate of suicide as hopelessness spreads.
“The human cost of all of this is very real,” Kenney said. “This literally is for many people a life and death question.”

Kenney said Alberta is well on its way to becoming “the most responsible barrel of oil produced in the world.”
“We will be the most desirable last barrel available to global energy markets,” Kenney said.

Before launching in to his plans for determining Alberta’s “fair deal,” Kenney said he would not accept the prospect of separation, saying he’ll always be a federalist, even if Justin Trudeau’s minority Liberal government may be “dangerous to the federation.” The better alternative, he said, is “bold action that is urgently executed.”

“As premier it is my democratic duty to stand up for Alberta and as a proud Canadian it is my patriotic duty to stand up for national unity,” Kenney said. “All we’ve ever asked for is a fair deal, to enjoy the same autonomy rights and respect as all other provinces.”

The premier vowed to open offices in Ottawa, Quebec and British Columbia to “defend the province’s interests.” The government is also planning to mimic legislation in B.C. that allows for referendums on major issues. He said his government will continue to work on platform promises, such as fighting for equalization reform and, if necessary, a referendum on the subject. Kenney also listed off other promises: reviving senate elections, which had been discontinued under the previous government, an Alberta-run parole board and fighting for property rights to be added to the constitution, among others.

“We are going to be very bold in imagining every way that we can assert ourselves,” Kenney said.

Kenney said the panel considering the “fair deal” question was one made up of “eminent Albertans” — such as former Reform party leader, Preston Manning — although its work would not commit the Alberta government to any ideas, but rather put them on the table for study.

Kenney was not made available to reporters to answer questions after his speech.

Among the proposals to be considered is for Alberta to collect its own taxes within the province, rather than outsourcing the job to Ottawa, just as Quebec already does; a withdrawal from the CPP and instead create a provincially-run pension plan, as exists in Quebec; a provincial police force, such as Ontario and Quebec have; seeking Alberta’s involvement in international treaty negotiations on issues that affect the province; and adopting Quebec’s requirement that local bodies — school boards and municipalities — get approval from the province before “entering into agreements” with Ottawa.

The panel, which has a budget of $650,000, will also be looking at creating a provincial firearms office, study the possibility of opting out of federal-provincial cost-sharing programs — a news release cites a possible national pharmacare program as an example — and creating a provincial constitution.

The panel will consult with the public for other ideas.

Kenney added that any measures coming out of the panel that were up for serious consideration would still be subject to a provincial referendum. “I can assure Albertans that we would not make a decision … unless the majority of Albertans were to endorse those proposals in a fair and democratic referendum,” he said.

The panel will begin public consultations on November 16 and conclude Jan. 20, 2020, with the panel’s recommendations going to the government by the end of March.

“Many Albertans who indicate support for federalism are demanding significant reforms that will allow the province to develop its resources, and play a larger role in the federation,” Kenney wrote in a letter to the panel charging them with their mandate.
Kenney told the crowd in Red Deer that even as the “fair deal” project unfolds, the priorities remain rebuilding Alberta’s badly hurt economy and ensuring that the Trans Mountain pipeline is built, by standing up for the “rule of law.”
“All of Alberta’s leverage will be focused on this goal,” he said.

Kenney’s speech, more than an hour long, was as much about grievances against Ottawa as it was about championing Alberta’s ability to persevere and overcome the challenges put before it.

“In so many ways Alberta did become the brightest gem, at least within the Canadian crown,” said Kenney.
“We are the province of opportunity, we are the magnet of risk taker and doers, builders and dreamers,” said Kenney. “This is a province with a huge and vital future. We must believe in this province. We must draw upon our natural resilience, on our history of overcoming adversity, as we have in the past, we will do it again, working together for an Alberta that is strong and free because we know that a strong Alberta means a strong Canada and it means a strong future for the next generation.”

He received a standing ovation.

Members of Kenney’s new ‘fair deal’ panel

Preston Manning, founder of the Reform Party
Stephen Lougheed, former CEO of Alberta Innovates
Oryssia Lennie, former deputy minister of Western Economic Diversification Canada
Jason Goodstriker, former Alberta regional chief for the Assembly of First Nations
Donna Kennedy-Glans, former Calgary MLA
Moin Yahya, law professor, University of Alberta
Drew Barnes, Cypress-Medicine Hat MLA
Miranda Rosin, Banff-Kananaskis MLA
Tany Yao, Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo MLA

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/kenney-reveals-fair-deal-plan-to-assess-alberta-run-pension-police-and-tax-collection
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
Kenney's plan to get Alberta out from under Trudeau before he completely destroys it

Kenney’s workaround emulates Quebec’s near-sovereignty autonomy, aimed at escaping fed policies rigged to bribe Quebec with Alberta money

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s father rolled out the National Energy Program in 1980 — a punitive tax grab for Alberta’s oil revenues to pay for the Liberal welfare state. Years later, Justin Trudeau did a redo by discriminating against Alberta’s oil industry to pay for his welfare state, phoney climate agenda and Quebec goodies.

But again, the jig’s up and Alberta Premier Jason Kenney came out fighting this weekend and, as many of us have recommended, embarked on a “workaround” strategy to get out from under Trudeau and the Laurentian elites who still control Canada.

Instead of a national energy grab, this Trudeau has cloaked himself in green by attacking the oil industry without even addressing the real problem which is demand.

Kenney’s workaround emulates Quebec’s near-sovereignty autonomy as well as is aimed at getting out from under the equalization transfer system and other fed policies that are rigged to bribe Quebec with Alberta money.

“Quebec announced a $4 billion surplus after getting $13 billion in equalization transfer payments from Alberta,” said the agitated premier in a speech Saturday at the Manning Conference I attended in Red Deer.
For example, he said, Ottawa has overcharged Alberta $1.7 billion in transfer overpayments since 2015 — created after Ottawa made an unfair adjustment to benefit Quebec. He wants an immediate rebate and, frankly, if not paid within 30 days, then I believe Alberta should sue Ottawa, plus penalties and interest.

This is policy malpractice on a grand scale. Attacking Alberta’s oil industry — the fourth-largest in the world — harms the province, its industry, its people, and Canada. In the past five years, Alberta’s economy has shrunk, unemployment soared and incomes declined.

“Some say Alberta’s downturn is strictly about low oil prices, but during this past five years, there has been an unprecedented boom in North Dakota, Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma in terms of oil drilling and production. Tens of billions in capital has flowed there and people, expertise and equipment has gone there,” said the premier. “It’s not about prices. It’s about policy.”

He also pointed out, to those who claim that the world must wean itself from oil, that this is irrational. “The International Energy Agency says global demand for oil will increase from 100 million barrels per day to 110 million barrels a day by 2040. The same agency says that, even if there is full compliance with the Paris Treaty on climate, the demand by 2040 will be 80 million barrels per day,” he said. “And natural gas demand globally will double”.

Even loonier is Ottawa’s aim to destroy Alberta, the world’s “most responsible” producer, with low emissions from a democratic country with human rights. Canada’s oil industry is the envy of every country in the world and the 2019 election result is a damning indictment against the Liberals, NDP, Greens and Bloc Québécois as well as the two-thirds of Canadian voters who voted for them.

“In the past five years, Alberta’s net contribution to the rest of the country totalled $23 billion more than we got back in services,” said Kenney. “In the past 10 years, it has been $200 billion more, and since 1960 $600 billion more.”

A blue-ribbon panel will determine by March what steps should be taken to reverse the damage and get out from under Ottawa. Proposals mirror the Quebec playbook: reform or withdraw from the transfer system to benefit Alberta; withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan, which Alberta heavily subsidizes; opt out of federal cost sharing programs like pharmacare and others; take over collection of all taxes like Quebec; and demand a say on all international treaties as Quebec has.

But immediately, Alberta wants the prime minister to scrap anti-resource and discriminatory Bills C-48 and C-69 which will destroy oil, gas, and mining industries, and complete the expansion of the TMX pipeline. If this Trudeau balks, then all bets are off.

 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
I'm loosing faith in the whole Wesex thing. Not that I don't agree with the concept, what I find troublesome is the fact that there is no clear strategy for the movement. Most Albertans seem to want to shut out the rest of the west and go it alone, totally unfeasible imho. I am also troubled by the radical far right wing rhetoric being spouted by many posters on their web site. If western separation is to be viable it needs to be founded on REAL Canadian values and not based on current US political ideas. It, like our gun laws has to be founded on a happy medium between far right and far left ideals. If Alberta features it's self the New Ottawa and wants to be the center and dictator of the new Western Republic then we will be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Western Separation is imho a good thing BUT if it is not founded on the needs of all western provinces and territories then I want no part of it.
 

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,778
Reaction score
3,574
Location
Mission B.C.
I'm loosing faith in the whole Wesex thing. Not that I don't agree with the concept, what I find troublesome is the fact that there is no clear strategy for the movement. Most Albertans seem to want to shut out the rest of the west and go it alone, totally unfeasible imho. I am also troubled by the radical far right wing rhetoric being spouted by many posters on their web site. If western separation is to be viable it needs to be founded on REAL Canadian values and not based on current US political ideas. It, like our gun laws has to be founded on a happy medium between far right and far left ideals. If Alberta features it's self the New Ottawa and wants to be the center and dictator of the new Western Republic then we will be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Western Separation is imho a good thing BUT if it is not founded on the needs of all western provinces and territories then I want no part of it.
Well put...and my sentiments as well!
 

NAHMINT II

Moderator, Backwoods Barista
Messages
3,564
Reaction score
2,625
Location
MID-ISLAND/Nanaimo area
I have no doubt ,trudeau being re elected has REALLY IRKED many across Canada...I do not think Alberta will get very far on going it alone....look at Quebec, years and years of working at becoming a ''new country in north amercia......'' :Na-ahh: but then again, I KNEW, no way in hell would ANYONE vote liberal after scandel upon scandel.... :OH-OH::harumph: I was totally wrong,again.
 

Head Lice

Long-Time Member
Messages
1,424
Reaction score
654
Location
Blue house ....
Jason Kenney's 'Fair Deal' proposal lays the groundwork for a later separation . . . .
If successful in implementing most/all of the 'Fair Deal' . . . it would open the door for Saskatchewan and Manitoba fair deals.
I believe that Jason Kenney should move very quickly on legislation, with separation as the ultimate goal for the three prairie provinces.
British Columbia east of Hope may very well be on-side with Alberta's initiative . . . .
What does Alberta have to lose . . . . nothing that 'Canada' has to offer, which has been nothing for three+ decades.
Support Alberta if you can . . . . the rest of the country has been hogging down the pizza, while Alberta's been picking up the tab.
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
Would Albertans really be better off with a new provincial pension plan, replacing the Canada Pension Plan?

It’s a critical question the Kenney government will grapple with in the coming months, but an internal report by the Alberta Investment Management Corp. (AIMCo) tackles the issue and indicates a case can be made.

By withdrawing from CPP, Albertans would see “a substantial benefit” as their costs to contribute to a provincial plan would drop, states the report, obtained by Postmedia.

The 19-page analysis was completed in September and calculates a sustainable pension contribution rate would fall to 7.21 per cent (and possibly lower) from current CPP base plan levels of 9.9 per cent, if an Alberta plan was established.

 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
That's interesting,,but I still need to see a plan for all this. Rhetoric just doesn't cut it for me, I need to see some concrete plans, political structure, medical, pensions, police/military, infrastructure, and the divvying up of the Federal budget to name a few things.
 

CanuckShooter

Wapiti Killer
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
1,379
Location
Giscome, BC, well close to there
That's interesting,,but I still need to see a plan for all this. Rhetoric just doesn't cut it for me, I need to see some concrete plans, political structure, medical, pensions, police/military, infrastructure, and the divvying up of the Federal budget to name a few things.
All that would come, same as it did in other countries that restructured. The question I have is WHY would CPP rates fall from 9.9 percent to 7.21 [or lower] if Alberta had their own CPP plan????? I wonder if it's a stretch to suggest that the 2,7 percent difference is being divvied up to someone living in another province??
 

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,778
Reaction score
3,574
Location
Mission B.C.
After listening to, and then looking into Kim Campbell’s impressive political and governmental related accomplishments, would people be interested in giving her another chance to be prime minister?
 

CanuckShooter

Wapiti Killer
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
1,379
Location
Giscome, BC, well close to there
KC...NOT A CHANCE, she is another one of the ''establishment' politicians that are fine with MPs making huge salaries and platinum pensions and and and. In my opinion any current career politician should be passed over, with very few exceptions.
 

Foxton Gundogs

END of TRAIL Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
13,730
Reaction score
4,865
Location
Cedar
CS sorry but I cant agree, not to have any plans in place is like throwing someone n the lake to see if they can swim. Do it right or not at all. jmho
 

CanuckShooter

Wapiti Killer
Messages
12,269
Reaction score
1,379
Location
Giscome, BC, well close to there
PLANS ARE BEING MADE....and have been made...

We all need to be 100% familiar with this in our discussions with others yet to see the light:)
Why Wexit:
Continuing the agenda of the late Pierre Elliot Trudeau and his National Energy Program, the Justin Trudeau Liberal government implemented numerous laws and regulations during their first term in office. These laws and regulations were established to squeeze the West into submission through economic destruction leading to poverty and reliance on the government. These tactics were executed under the guise of ‘environmentalism’, ‘post-nationalism’ and ‘progressivism’. Eastern youth were further convinced that the driver of Western economic success was “dirty.” As a result of Liberal policies, hundreds of thousands of jobs were lost. This has led to severe anxiety, depression and an increase in suicide among the Western people. Contrarily, this is not what the mainstream media has showed the Eastern population. Instead, emotive videos of a dying planet overrule the emotions of a family weakened through financial stress or a child without a father.
In the next four years of the Trudeau government’s second term, we will see the final push for Western submission.
The Objective:
We must create a blockade to end Eastern influence that opposes economic liberty, social stability and Western self-determination. The only way this can be achieved is through a peaceful separation. Drawing new borders will allow the West to develop its natural resources, economy and culture without interference from Eastern Canada and/or foreign special interests.
Cautiously, other methods of secession, including but not limited to, the implementation of a “de jure” government, will either be ignored, or viewed upon as seditious by the federal government. Anyone calling for this approach to secession does not care about your life – they care only to see the results of their ideas, which would surely fail.
The end goal for each province is a free and democratic society founded upon a citizen-led collaborative constitution.
2
Pre-Election:
In 2016, “The Plan” was put in place to deal with an expected Trudeau re-election. In short, Phase One was the development of a digital network through a marketing campaign which was designed to lay the infrastructure of a Wexit movement and launch “Wexit” into a trending status at the announcement of a Liberal re-election. This was accomplished without algorithmic A.I. or major funding despite disinformation campaigns by the mainstream media and their ‘experts’.
The Plan also introduced the idea of new parties on a provincial and federal level - Wexit Alberta, Wexit Saskatchewan, Wexit Manitoba, Wexit British Columbia and Wexit Canada. Using “Wexit” throughout all groups not only co-branded the Wexit movement as a Western unified movement, it also increased the Wexit SEO, eventually leading to full scale public awareness at the announcement of a Trudeau re-election,
3
Secession Process:
A provincial referendum on secession must occur within each province aspiring to exit Confederation. This process begins with either a current sitting provincial Premier or MLA to draft and pass legislation on a clear question of secession to be voted on by a provincial referendum. After consulting with constitutional lawyers, the question is then sent to the House of Commons for review to ensure the question is clear enough. The House of Commons can reject the question under the requirements of the Clarity Act. If the question is approved, a provincial referendum vote on secession would proceed.
Under the Clarity Act, a clear majority must show that secession is the will of the people. After which, negotiations shall begin between provincial and federal governments. However, it is highly unlikely that the federal government would play fairly through this Secession Process. We must anticipate this and in return be transparent with the public about our strategy. In our determination for Western Independence, we must exhaust all options for the sake of Western Unity.
Many Western Independence supporters disagree on which approach should be taken to achieve Independence, therefore, we must (in a timely manner) provide evidence that some options are, in fact, dead ends. Meanwhile, alternative plans will be in place, and those who see that the plan they had hoped for has failed, will unite with the majority core. Remember, secession is only attainable in unity.
4
Wexit Canada:
Wexit Canada holds a unique purpose and meaning for its registration as a federal party – it will act as the federal shield for provincial secession. Being the first registered party, it provides further national exposure to the Wexit movement, it brings Westerners under one banner and allows the message of Western Independence to be heard on a global scale. Furthermore, it serves to approve of the provincial referendum question. As stated earlier, the “Question” must be approved through the House of Commons. As it currently stands, the West has zero MP’s that openly sympathize with the will for Western Independence. Today, we can only expect that a referendum question would be denied immediately upon arrival at the House of Commons. We must have Wexit support within the House of Commons.
We understand that Wexit Canada’s purpose is temporary - its sole purpose is to assist the provincial secession referendums within the House of Commons. Furthermore, a Wexit Canada federal party would be dissolved after the West Exits Canada.
Wexit Alberta:
Wexit has consistently kept pressure on Alberta Premier Jason Kenney to acknowledge the will of the people and hold a referendum on secession. However, Jason Kenney remains committed to his federalist position.
[Plan A]: Alberta currently has two registered Independence parties – the Freedom Conservative
Party and the Alberta Independence Party. Unfortunately, neither of these parties laid the digital infrastructure necessary to project them into the national/international spotlight and gain the centralized majority support.
Wexit Alberta has made numerous attempts - both publicly and privately - to have an amalgamation of all Albertan Independence parties.
[Plan B]: Wexit Alberta has no choice but to register as a political party, elect Wexit Alberta MLA’s or a Wexit Alberta government and ensure the referendum question is asked.
5
Wexit Saskatchewan:
Saskatchewan Premier, Scott Moe’s “New Deal” would be the largest effort made by a Western Premier at this time. However, it would be foolish for the People of Saskatchewan to believe that Justin Trudeau will acknowledge a “New Deal” while he is committed to relentless and intensified attacks on Western industry.
So, is Premier Scott Moe willing to place a referendum question for secession on the next provincial ballot in approx. one years’ time?
[Plan A]: Wexit Saskatchewan will not register as a political party if Premier Scott Moe is willing to uphold the will of the people and hold a provincial referendum on secession. We would support
Premier Scott Moe in this decision.
[Plan B]: If Premier Scott Moe refuses to place the referendum question on the ballot, the People of Saskatchewan will have no choice but to register as a political party, elect Wexit Saskatchewan
MLA’s or a Wexit Saskatchewan government and ensure the referendum question is asked.
Wexit British Columbia:
The separationist element of British Columbia has been around since the days of Pierre Trudeau and continues to enjoy popular sentiment with both right and left-leaning segments of the population.
British Columbia currently has no party which looks out for the interests of British Columbians, Wexit BC as a provincial party will work to provide a fiscally conservative yet socially liberal alternative to a very stacked left of center political arena.
[Plan A]: Our mandate is to form an alternative provincial party that caters to the needs of
everyday working-class British Columbians, with a focus on cutting red tape on small businesses, encouraging economic growth, and working co-operatively with first nations stakeholders on plans to develop our vast amounts of natural resources. Traditionally our resource sector has provided employment to the citizens of our province and brought to us some of the highest standards of living anywhere in the world.
6
In addition, our policies will be focused on cutting red tape on emerging rideshare industries, on redevelopments of properties for affordable housing. Through popular plans which are focused on decreasing the cost of living, and increasing the amount of disposable income, the middle class, which is the backbone of society will once again thrive and prosper.
Upon taking a majority our party will introduce a motion for separation so that we can be separate from eastern Canada, and no longer use our resources to pay for their economy, nor be beholden to laws designed to cripple our economy. Upon the successful separation of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, we will work toward the goal of one united Western Canadian nation, with the goal of being a beacon of economic prosperity.
[Plan B]: Wexit BC does not exist and thus does not go forward with a real alternative focused on our citizens and their economic prosperity. We do not separate, and we stay in the Canadian
federation, ignoring the opportunities presented by the union of Alberta and Saskatchewan.
As the remaining producing province, British Columbia's wealth is continually drained by a more and more demanding east coast voting block, often selling the rights to our natural wealth to foreign interests for pennies on the dollar.
Our province continues down the road of endless economic destruction until poverty is widespread. In this BC, most businesses have closed, our industrial sector is largely non-competitive, and social assistance in the form of basic income is the primary way citizens pay for food, shelter, and essentials. Politicians however still enjoy a first-world quality of life at the expense of their starving citizens.
Wexit Manitoba:
Although support for secession is present in Manitoba, the organization within Wexit Manitoba is not as active as Alberta, Saskatchewan or British Columbia. However, Wexit is ready to adopt this organization - when ready – into the already established infrastructure.
7
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
5,427
Reaction score
4,629
Location
Port Alberni
In the early 2000s, foreign capital investment poured into Alberta. ConocoPhillips, Marathon, Apache and Chevron all made major new investments. But it wasn’t just American energy companies. New investors included Shell, BP and Centrica from the U.K.; Total from France; Statoil (now Equinor) from Norway and a host of smaller companies from South Korea, China and Japan.

Today, they are almost all gone. Since 2015, there has been a $50-billion exodus of foreign capital. Add the equity sell-off of Canadian oil and gas companies, and the loss soars past $100 billion. As noted, this collapse has been driven by policy, not oil prices. Where Alberta used to rank near the top in terms of energy sector competitiveness, we now rank 16th in a recent survey of 20 North American states and provinces. The problem: regulatory uncertainty, lack of pipeline access and taxes.

This explains why even Canadian energy companies are bailing out of Canada. TransCanada Pipeline has purged “Canada” from its new name, TC Energy, and is re-allocating its investments to Texas and Mexico. Encana, which began as Alberta Energy Corp. and grew to the highest-valued Canadian-owned energy company in the world, has changed its name to Ovintiv and slinked away to Denver.

The bottom line is clear: The political strategies of my generation of Albertans have not worked to improve Alberta’s position within Confederation. It would be a disservice to our children’s generation to say otherwise. Today, we are even more vulnerable to the Liberals’ tried and true strategy of pillaging Alberta’s economy to buy votes in Quebec and Ontario.

 
Top Bottom