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Bow tech questions??

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CanuckShooter

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I read about bows with different pull lengths (right term?) and I was wondering how someone new to bow hunting would determine the proper bow to buy? Are they adjustable? Are they like socks -size 10-12?? Does it work different for longbows vs recurves vs compounds??
 
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Bow lengths is close - it's called draw length. Draw length means the number of inches between your hand holding the bow and where the string sits in the arrow nock - while at full draw.

Most bows are draw length specific, but a few are adjustable without buying extra modules. Draw length specific modules are installed on the cam(s) and are usually bought as an after market addition to your bow.

Most people who want to buy a bow take the time to figure out their draw length before buying. Draw length can be figured by measuring your "wingspan" - which is the measurement from your middle fingertip on one hand to the other middle fingertip on the opposite hand while your arms are outspread. This measurement is then divided by 2.5 That gets you into the ballpark.







If you're thinking about buying a bow you need to go to a pro-shop where your exact draw length can be measured so you can buy the proper bow.
 
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CanuckShooter

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Bow Tech Questions: Would a bow with a longer draw length be physically longer and vise versa? Longer would be better? Your arrows would need to be longer, would they tend to fly with more stability? Or would the added weight affect it negatively? Would you get higher arrow speeds with a longer draw?
 
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Longer draw length does not equate to a bigger/longer bow. What is considered "better" is a bigger brace height - that is the measurement from the deepest part of the bow handle back to the string, when all is at rest.

Longer arrows equate to more arrow weight which means less speed. So, no longer arrows are not more stable than shorter ones.

A longer draw equates to a longer "power stroke"......so yes, a longer draw length means more arrow speed - all other things being equal.

Advertised speeds of bows are based on a bow that has a draw weight of 70 lbs, shooting and arrow that weighs no more than 5 grains per pound of draw weight - with a draw length of 30 inches. So that arrow would weigh in at 350 grains (including all its components) and be shot out of a 70lb bow by a shooter who's draw length is 30 inches long. 99% of shooters have a draw length of between 27.5 and 28.5 inches.

What truly is a meanignful measurement is the KE of a given setup - or its Kinetic Energy. Meaning the pounds per square inch that the arrow hits its target at or with.

It is pretty unusual to find a shooter who has a proper draw length that exceeds 29.5 inches.
 
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CanuckShooter

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KE~how do they measure kinetic energy?

I don't quite get how a longer draw length wouldn't equate into a bigger bow? Just guessing, but in a recurve you'd really change the dynamics of a bow to draw one designed for 28" draw length to 30"??? In a compound you could make adjustments, how would they do this with a recurve??

Thanks for answering Bow Walker....you obviously know lots about the tech side of bow hunting!
 
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No problem CS...
Kinetic Energy is best explained here http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ke.html

The formula is a bit of a P.I.A. to remember and calculate so here is a site that calculates it for you.....
http://archeryreport.com/calculators.html

You can have a bow with a bow (60lb draw eight) with a short A2A, yet a draw length of 30+ inches - conversely you can have a bow (60 lb draw weight) with a long A2A and have a draw length of only 25 or 26 inches. Both bows will only give you the stated 60 lb push to the arrow - but the one with the longer draw length will give you more speed to that arrow because the string has a longer time to push the arrow (power stroke) using the 60 lbs of draw weight.

In traditional archery it is possible to "overdraw" a bow - that is draw it beyond the 28" mark and thus get greater speed out of the same bow. Traditional bow draw weights are measured using a standard. That standard is fixed at 28" of draw length.....but it is easy to draw a bow past the 28" mark - say to 29" or 30". The result is greater arrow speed (and higher KE) from the same bow.

A compound bow has what's called a "valley" and a "back wall" as you draw the bow. The "valley" starts as the cam (or cams in a dual cam bow) start to turn over and because of the eccentrics in the cam they reduce the amount of draw weight that is felt by the shooter. This is called "let-off" which is usually set at either 75% or 80% of the bow's draw weight.

So for a bow that has a draw weight of 60 lbs and a let-off of 80%, the shooter only feels like he is holding 48 lbs when he is at full draw. With a traditional bow the shooter is holding ALL of the bow's stated draw weight when he is at 28" draw length....more if the shooter exceeds the 28" mark.

A compound bow STOPS when you reach the draw length for that particular bow - whether the bow is set at 27" or 30" you'll only get the stated 60 lbs draw weight when you release the shot. With my Recurve - that has a draw weight of 50 lbs @ 28" - I decide how heavy of a draw weight that I want simply by the draw length that I pull. If I don't draw back to the 28" mark I'm not going to get the full 50 lbs. If I draw the bow past the 28" mark I'll get more than the stated 50 lbs.
 
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CanuckShooter

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Ok, I think I've digested quite a bit of that!! :-)

What about arrow rests (terminology ?) I've seen some that are round with what looks like brush material, some that fall away and some that seem to stay fixed?? What is with all the different arrow rests? The one that drops when they release the arrow looks like it could be tricky to set up?? Can you tell us anything about this part of a hunting bow set up?
 
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Yeah, sometimes I do tend to ramble on too much. ::)

The whole thing about arrow rests is that they are designed to both support the arrow and to actually touch the arrow as little as possible - hence the development of Drop-Away rests.

They have to support the arrow - obviously, but they also are meant to touch the arrow as little as possible after you release the shot (whether you use fingers or a mechanical release).

The more an arrow rest is in contact with the arrow shaft as it slides along the rest during the shot release - the more that arrow can (and is) influenced by movement of the shooter's bow hand. Any torque, twist, dropping or raising of the hand holding the bow (while the arrow is moving past the riser) will be immediately transferred to the arrow, causing it to alter its Point Of Impact. Not a good thing.

Also the longer (and the more) an arrow rest touches the arrow shaft the more is slows it down. Drop-away rests do the best job - they support the arrow during the draw length and while you're aiming yet the drop out of the way (after about 4 - 6 inches of arrow travel) and don't influence the arrow's P.O.I., or slow that arrow down appreciably.

There are all manner of ways in which manufacturers have come up with to support the arrow while actually touching the arrow as little as possible. It's interesting to see what comes out as the "latest and greatest" innovation year after year.
 
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You're making me work/type!! Not to mention think........... ???

Drop-away rests usually operate by means of a small cable or tie attached to the downward traveling buss cable on a compound bow..........although there are a few variations, but the majority use the motion of the downward traveling cable.

That motion draws the rest upward - against a spring tension - during the last 8 - 10 inches of draw and raises the rest into the shooting position. At this point the shooter is aiming and getting ready to release.

Once the shot is released the spring tension of the rest drops it away from the arrow after it imparts the necessary guidance to that arrow. The rest 'drops away' not touching the arrow - not dragging along it length and robbing speed - not imparting any shooting form flaws into the shot.

The arrow is stabilized and guided during its first 10 - 14 inches of travel, after the release. After that it doesn't need or want any more input from the archer, it just wants to do the job it was aimed at. So be sure that when you release the shot you know where you want it to go.
 
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CanuckShooter

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It sounds like a drop away rest is the way to go!! What can you tell us about triggers? (term??) are there any major differences in them? Do yOu adjust 'trigger pull' like a rifle? Which make would you recommend? I am finding this tremendously interesting and we are fortunate to have a knowledgeable bow hunter to answer all my questions!! Thanks again.
 
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Drop-aways are by far the way to go for most archery applications. Although for specialized 3-D or target bows many people swear by the Lizard tongue style of rest.

Triggers? :) Although they are"fired"; by a trigger, so in a way you're right.

I'm guessing you mean those mechanical releases that go with the D-loops....

Yes - the trigger release can be adjusted for tension. Not recommended to go too light though. The release still has to be able to hang onto the string during the draw cycle. There gets to be a lot of pull on the release duriing the draw cycle - and with a trigger set too light you'll be punching yourself in the mouth half-way thru your draw.

You need to be able to 'feel' the trigger with gloves on - and not to trigger the release while you're feeling for it.

There's one that I have come to really like - for both target and hunting. It's called the Fletch Hook by Jim Fletcher Releases.




This one (at least for me) is the easiest to hook onto a D-loop, even without looking away from that nice fat doe over there. Simple, durable, and it works!
 
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Here's a look at a typical compound bow and it's parts. It might help to put things in perspective.



ILLUSTRATING THE MAJOR PARTS OF A SINGLE-CAM COMPOUND BOW

1. Upper limb bolt (17. Lower limb bolt) adjusts the draw weight of the bow
2. Limb Pocket(s) – Upper and Lower
3. Upper limb (18. Lower limb)
4. Bow limb vibration dampeners
5. Idler wheel
6. Tiller measurement (upper, and lower)
7. String vibration dampener
8. Buss cable
9. String
10. Axle to Axle measurement (also known as the “A-2-A” measurement)
11. Cable guard
12. Riser
13. Shelf
14. Brace height measurement
15. String dampener (also known as an STS)
17. Lower limb bolt
18. Lower limb
19. Cam
20. Grip
21. String Serving
22. Sight Window
23. Stabilizer attachment bushing
24. Cable Slide
25. Bow sight mounting holes
26. “Berger hole”
 
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Parts Of An arrow.



There are different options for just about everything that either goes on the arrow shaft - or that you put inside the arrow shaft.

The one constant is the arrow shaft - it is what it is.

For instance - the arrow nock.....there are standard nocks (like the one pictured above) or there are ones that are called Pin Nocks that use Bushings, like the ones shown below from Gold Tip.



Then there is the fletching. Feathers? Plastic Vanes? Sooo many choices..........They all come in virtually any color imaginable and any shape - such as Parabolic, and Shield just to name two.

Vanes come in a wide variety of colors, shapes and sizes. Here is a picture of a 4" Duravane from http://www.norwayindustries.com/products/duravanes.aspx




Then there are the ever popular Blazer vanes from the Bohning Company http://www.bohning.com/store/bohning-vanes.html

 
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CanuckShooter

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You mention stuff that goes inside your arrows? Nocks and inserts yes...I presume aluminum arrows are hollow, are there things for putting inside of arrows? A miniature centrifuge perhaps? Weights maybe? What about carbon arrows, are they hollow? Do arrows come in different weights like fly line or thicker and thinner like bullets? Lots of questions!
 
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All arrows (except wooden ones) are hollow. Inside them goes the inserts that accept the screw-in field tips or broadheads, and bushings to accept pin nocks. Almost all inserts will accept screw-in weights with which you can alter an arrow's F.O.C. (Front o|f Center) balance.

It is very beneficial to arrow flight to have an F.O.C. of between 7% and 15%. Of course the higher the F.O.C. the more the arrow will lose velocity/range as it dips down on the point end. Yes an arrow with a low F.O.C. will fly furhter, but it will be unstable in that flight.

F.O.C. is a percentile number that represents how far forward of the exact center of the arrow that the balance point is. It is illustrated below.



Arrows do come in different weights. An aluminum arrow is generally described by the number that represents both its diameter and its wall thickness. Such as 2317.......A carbon shaft is usually designated by its spine deflection. Then you've got to get into the arrow's specs to find its wall thickness and its inner diameter.

Arrow spine refers to the arrow's degree of stiffness - how much the arrow resists being bent.



The amount (in inches) of deflection from the horizontal is expressed by the number of inches of that deflection. As an example an arrow with a spine of .500 deflects .5" from horizontal....And if you ever intend to achieve serious accuracy with your compound bow, you'll need to choose an arrow that's just stiff enough - but not too stiff for your particular bow setup.
 
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No - it's not quite as easy as buying a gun and practicing at the range for a few days and then going into the bush...........that's why it's not for most people. It takes a certain level of commitment to learning and a higher commitment to practicing.

But it is interesting.....and I love it. So much so that I haven't gun-hunted in years.
 
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chootem

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i had to stop reading at the first couple posts to have a chuckle. ...i guess im that 1%`er...new to bow hunting and my draw is 31.5", but im 6'6"
good read so far. now to go back and uncross my eyes and read the rest. thx for the work here
 
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choOtem link=topic=169.msg10427#msg10427 date=1347644553 said:
i had to stop reading at the first couple posts to have a chuckle. ...i guess im that 1%`er...new to bow hunting and my draw is 31.5", but im 6'6"
good read so far. now to go back and uncross my eyes and read the rest. thx for the work here

6' 6" tall with a DL of 31.5"?!? :o


I'll have to be extra nice to you...... ::)


Welcome to the site.
 
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chootem

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thx for the invite. lots of good info in here, and im sure ill be throwing around alot of noob questions myself.
already have a few just from sitting here practising anchoring and viewing through sight. ill post them up soon as i do bit more reading
 
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chootem

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wrong spot to ask but im the same boat as above with place to practice and close to home. i do have a fair bit of open back bush behind us more farm type ereas but do we have to go to a hunting MU to use our bows as well?. obviously dont want to do in residential but i think i could find a nice big open field not to far away if i had permission and would make life so much easier to learn.....not to mention cheeper for me
 
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choOtem link=topic=169.msg10444#msg10444 date=1347649253 said:
wrong spot to ask but im the same boat as above with place to practice and close to home. i do have a fair bit of open back bush behind us more farm type ereas but do we have to go to a hunting MU to use our bows as well?. obviously dont want to do in residential but i think i could find a nice big open field not to far away if i had permission and would make life so much easier to learn.....not to mention cheeper for me

Where are you located cho0tem? That'll help in figuring out when, and when to shoot.
 
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chootem

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and no wheels is my main thing. dont mind slinging it on my back and taking the mountain bike out for a rip to get somewhere. have the range behind me but a tad far for bike ride. need a nap before id be able to shoot by time i got there
 
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choOtem link=topic=169.msg10444#msg10444 date=1347649253 said:
wrong spot to ask but im the same boat as above with place to practice and close to home. i do have a fair bit of open back bush behind us more farm type ereas but do we have to go to a hunting MU to use our bows as well?. obviously dont want to do in residential but i think i could find a nice big open field not to far away if i had permission and would make life so much easier to learn.....not to mention cheeper for me

You should be able to set a target up right there - just be careful of your backstop and the direction that you are shooting..............safety first ::)


Start at 20 yards for practicing your shooting form. Shoot at the standard Vegas Spot targets - great for getting your muscles to memorize a good shooting form. Or - get a package of paper sandwich plates (not dinner plates) and draw a 2" circle in the middle. Practice hitting inside the circle.


Good shooters can do the "inch-per-yard-grouping" thing with their targets.............that is, at 10 yards they have a 1" group of three arrows. At 20 yards they have a 2" group. At 30 yards they have a 3" group...and so on.
 
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chootem

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im semi new out here so dont know any of the people. not sure how they would feel if i asked. or whos land is whos as some is abandon and over grown with grass and old crumbled buildings, and it is within city limits so wasnt sure the law for us bow guys for target. for most part its fish/hunt friendly but im concerned about some yuppy in his bmw drives by to see and calls it in. and im in poo poo
need to look deeper into whos land and so on this is,
thx
 

Riverbc

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I just briefly looked at the Mission Bylaws, and don't see anything about shooting a bow in city limits. I sometimes shoot my bow in my backyard in Abbotsford, but most of the time head out to the Abbotsford Fish and Game Club.
 
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chootem

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Hmmmm...ok. im new to this and not up on all regs. just reading core book now, just assumed had to use MU like we do with guns to target shoot. this may open my life so much easier. ...turn the garage into a mini range....lol..jk..or not..
 
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chootem

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lololol...ive gone for that dam fly 2 times now....i got a bunch scooting around in here so thought was one of them..seem to love sitting on the monitors
 
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I've got room in the backyard to shoot out to 20 yards, and I do so regularly. So Far - no problemo... ::)


I suspect that if you were careful of where you were aiming and careful not to shoot toward anyone's house that you'd be OK. I hope.
 
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chootem

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id think for my location id be best off making something in the garage. behind the initial wall is 4 more before anything would exit the home and anything behind there is my suite so nobody would be in any of the rooms behind there. garage seems to be the space we tried at yesterday at waynes...and nobody would even know what i was doing.
yard has the room but houses here are about 2 foot apart...lol in all directions to.
 

Riverbc

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lol...okay.....I'm guessing up Cedar and north of Cherry. Lots of green belt up there. I can think of a few off of Cherry, Tunbridge, and Egglestone. No houses, fences or animals on them. I'd be practicing on them.
 
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choOtem link=topic=169.msg10561#msg10561 date=1347686145 said:
um, not sure i want to get that detailed...up and in the back

lots of practice to do

Shoot him a PM - maybe he can help with a place to shoot on a regular basis............
 
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chootem

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ya i hope i didnt sound rudish there keeping my location private. just new and dont know to many yet. and isnt that i have a bad vibe from anyone.

i just googled maped them streets and that may work for me real well..im over other way...east but pretty much there. ..i was thinking up around the prisons also
 

Riverbc

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hey no problem...you should be able to find a few spots near you...just be careful, about wondering around the prison's property! :o
 
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chootem

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i feel like 500 eyes on me just going for a walk past that place, its to bad to cause they have a ton of cyotes and sweet land just in the back of it perfect to hunt or target...fruit trees and stuff they left there bring the deer in all the time ive seen
 

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