Welcome to True North Outdoor Hunting Forum - British Columbia and Beyond

It looks like you haven't created an account yet. Why not take a minute to register for your own free account now? As a member you get free access to all of our forums and posts plus the ability to post your own messages, communicate directly with other members and much more.

Register Log in

Crossbow draw weight question....

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:18)

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,267
Reaction score
2,723
Location
Mission B.C.
I am considering purchasing a crossbow, and after getting some good advice from one of
our experienced members, an Excalibur in the high 300's to 400 fps seems to fit my needs.
Only question I can't get a clear answer to is just how hard is it to pull and cock 140-165
draw weight when using a rope cocking aid for an older fellow with short arms. Although
I used to be stronger than most fellows my size, that's not the case anymore.
There are a great many crossbows out there that likely would do the job but I don't want anything
that is too complicated or suspect to breaking or frequently getting out of tune.
Cabela's have a Carbon Express X-Force on sale for $399.99 with an advertised draw weight of 140 lb
while producing 390 fps but even the salesperson says that the scope is garbage. He also warns that
"you get what you pay for" when asked about it's long time durability. Wayne of Big Game Archery
has a PSE 400 for $700 that comes with a decent scope but it's rope pulling draw weight is 165 lbs.
The Excalibur I'm interested in is a Bulldog 400 which comes with a high end scope and bolts for $999.99
It is a 140 lb draw weight when using a rope aid.
?????
 

moosecamp

The only place to be...
Messages
71
Reaction score
140
Location
Cobble Hil B.C
You should be able to get the bull dog cross bow with the cocking system. Check out their site.
 

moosecamp

The only place to be...
Messages
71
Reaction score
140
Location
Cobble Hil B.C
Sorry I was looking at the 440 not the 400. You can still get the cocking system by itself if you need it.

 

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,267
Reaction score
2,723
Location
Mission B.C.
Sorry I was looking at the 440 not the 400. You can still get the cocking system by itself if you need it.

Thanks for the info...that was in my back pocket as backup if I had ongoing problems with my back.
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
4,963
Reaction score
3,726
Location
Port Alberni
I don't think you would have much problem cocking the 400 Bulldog with the rope cocker.
My Partner has one of those, and it is actually easier than my Matrix 380 for me to cock.
The crank is a good investment, and will always do the job with much less effort.

As I suggested in my last pm, I tend to shy off of wheeled (cams) bows. They all eventually will require some tuning / tweaking, which in turn requires a bow press. For most, that means a trip to the shop, and hope they ain't overly busy!
Anyone can do any work ever required on a recurve at home or even in the field. No press required.
Guess it is my preference for the KISS principle showing through again... LOL

Cheers,
Nog

PS: Damn good price on the Bulldog 400 btw!
 

Buck fever

Active Member
Messages
123
Reaction score
48
Location
Vancouver Island
My rope cocker has a 4 to 1 mechanical advantage ,making my 150 lb crossbow very light to cock. A tiny lady who tried it agreed, and was amazed at how easy it was .
"You only get what you pay for" is a used car salesman's line, which has suckered a lot of people into paying far more than they should have. It assumes every item sold, is being sold by someone honest, and there is no such thing as a ripoff.
Don't believe it!
 

Buck fever

Active Member
Messages
123
Reaction score
48
Location
Vancouver Island
I dont see the logic in cams, and compound cross bows, as your greatest power in loading is in the full draw end ,and rope loaders make the drawing advantages of compound crossbows, irrelevant .
 

olympia

Long-Time Member
Messages
2,468
Reaction score
514
Location
Lower Mainland
Big Lew, I have seen those used by people who had very limited strength due to injury. Honestly I don't think you would have any problems at all
 

olympia

Long-Time Member
Messages
2,468
Reaction score
514
Location
Lower Mainland
I don't think you would have much problem cocking the 400 Bulldog with the rope cocker.
My Partner has one of those, and it is actually easier than my Matrix 380 for me to cock.
The crank is a good investment, and will always do the job with much less effort.

As I suggested in my last pm, I tend to shy off of wheeled (cams) bows. They all eventually will require some tuning / tweaking, which in turn requires a bow press. For most, that means a trip to the shop, and hope they ain't overly busy!
Anyone can do any work ever required on a recurve at home or even in the field. No press required.
Guess it is my preference for the KISS principle showing through again... LOL

Cheers,
Nog

PS: Damn good price on the Bulldog 400 btw!
I was pretty set on one day acquiring a xcalibur micro but man oh man those Barnett crossbows are pretty slick too!!! I hear you about the whole keep it simple without cams
 

358win

THE WEATHERMAN
Messages
1,293
Reaction score
650
Location
1-05
The ease of cocking a X bow with a string cocking aid helps because it gives you 4 times the strength you have on your own.
HOWEVER. The power stroke (the length you need to draw the string) IS significant.
If you need 10 inches to draw to cock the bow, It is easy because that's where you have the most power. Micro's do this.
The stronger your X bow is the more likely you will have a longer draw to pull to cock it.
Drawing more weight up when your back is now strait, and needing your shoulders to do this is very difficult.
I have many times asked the customer to try to cock the bow they agreed to buy. They could not.
 

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,267
Reaction score
2,723
Location
Mission B.C.
The ease of cocking a X bow with a string cocking aid helps because it gives you 4 times the strength you have on your own.
HOWEVER. The power stroke (the length you need to draw the string) IS significant.
If you need 10 inches to draw to cock the bow, It is easy because that's where you have the most power. Micro's do this.
The stronger your X bow is the more likely you will have a longer draw to pull to cock it.
Drawing more weight up when your back is now strait, and needing your shoulders to do this is very difficult.
I have many times asked the customer to try to cock the bow they agreed to buy. They could not.
This is why I decided on this micro that came with the winch as well...I have relatively short arms. I know I can cock
most crossbows with 150lb or less when using a rope cocker, but to do it many times while practicing is the concern
if my back problems persist.
 

Bow Walker

RUFF N TUMBLE "LEGEND" IN MY OWN MIND.
Messages
38,291
Reaction score
3,006
Location
6000 Kms Away From Home.
Dave - 85% of people that buy a crossbow aren't worried about practicing with it..... All they do is shoot it (maybe) a half dozen times and say "I got this."

The problem is that a crossbow shoots so much like a rifle that they (that 85%) forget about the flight path of the bolt. Sure, they can hit the bullseye at the local range while shooting on flat, clear ground at a distance of 40 yards - but - get them in a hunting situation where the ground is very uneven, there are branches and obstructions in the way and they go all to hell.

Good on you for being conscientious and thinking things thru. :Oh Yeah!:
 

olympia

Long-Time Member
Messages
2,468
Reaction score
514
Location
Lower Mainland
Barnett You say Nov. do I have a deal for you lol
The ease of cocking a X bow with a string cocking aid helps because it gives you 4 times the strength you have on your own.
HOWEVER. The power stroke (the length you need to draw the string) IS significant.
If you need 10 inches to draw to cock the bow, It is easy because that's where you have the most power. Micro's do this.
The stronger your X bow is the more likely you will have a longer draw to pull to cock it.
Drawing more weight up when your back is now strait, and needing your shoulders to do this is very difficult.
I have many times asked the customer to try to cock the bow they agreed to buy. They could not.
I had an exomaxx, I left the cocking aid at home that morning, thank God I didn't see any deer or else i would of shyt a billygoat. I remember trying to draw that string for kicks, got about 99.9% of the way but just couldn't do it, thought I was loose my fingers too!! So I shot a coyote instead with my mosin nagant...thee end
 

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,267
Reaction score
2,723
Location
Mission B.C.
Well, I learned a great many years ago that there's a huge difference between ideal circumstances
at a range and realistic hunting scenarios. I did my due diligence (I thought) by putting many hours
in practicing with my 70 lb compound bow of the day which was a bit difficult to draw at first. With
practice, my muscles became used to what they were called on to do and that difficulty became much
less...at the range. This became the pattern for the first few years and I was able to shoot several deer.
They were all under almost ideal circumstances. Then came the day I saw a very large whitetail buck
that was well within range but there was a bush between us and I was on a unstable slope. I tried as hard
as I could to pull my bow back until I hurt my shoulder muscles and just couldn't do it as that buck stood
there wondering just what the heck I was doing. With tears in my eyes I had to admit defeat and that was
the end of that year's bow season for me. I bought another 70 bow that I was more comfortable with and
was able to shoot my largest muley buck under similar circumstances. Being a slow learner though, the next
year I had a situation where I had to hold at full draw for what seemed like forever until I got the shakes and had
to let down as I watched the buck walk away. That's when I went in and had my bow limbs exchanged to 60 lbs.
Now, because of my age and a back problem, I've decided on going to a crossbow so I can keep in the game
for a few more years because I know I'll likely have problems like before with my compound.
 

Bow Walker

RUFF N TUMBLE "LEGEND" IN MY OWN MIND.
Messages
38,291
Reaction score
3,006
Location
6000 Kms Away From Home.
That's the problem with many a first-time archer...they want the huge draw weights thinking that it equals speed and/or killing power...... Not So. I remember one time when I was in Boorman's just bs-ing with the guys when in comes this big dude looking to buy a bow. He absolutely had to have a draw weight of 100 lbs - nothing else would do. Chuck and Ron tried to talk him out of it but he was deaf to their logic.

Then there's the difficulty in carrying the bow (or crossbow) around for a few hours while engaged in hunting. That weight soon feels like a big boulder in your hands as your muscles slowly get fatigued. Crossbows have even more mass than a compound bow and it only gets heavier and heavier.
 

olympia

Long-Time Member
Messages
2,468
Reaction score
514
Location
Lower Mainland
That's the problem with many a first-time archer...they want the huge draw weights thinking that it equals speed and/or killing power...... Not So. I remember one time when I was in Boorman's just bs-ing with the guys when in comes this big dude looking to buy a bow. He absolutely had to have a draw weight of 100 lbs - nothing else would do. Chuck and Ron tried to talk him out of it but he was deaf to their logic.

Then there's the difficulty in carrying the bow (or crossbow) around for a few hours while engaged in hunting. That weight soon feels like a big boulder in your hands as your muscles slowly get fatigued. Crossbows have even more mass than a compound bow and it only gets heavier and heavier.
You couldnt have spoken truer words...first time I took a buck with my Excalibur was a gong show, jumping out of the sidekick hands shaking, I tried loadinf the arrow in from underneath for some reason, then when I decided to feed from top my Broadhead snagged, finally caught up to him. But Big Lew and Dan are spot on a out knowing your equipment and trying to use the "powerful" equipment. I ended up getting rid of the bow because it was so bloody wide and would always be bumping into things making it hard to do any real bushwalking.
 

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,267
Reaction score
2,723
Location
Mission B.C.
Two more reasons I went with the 360 micro rather than the larger, heavier, wider, and more powerful ones.
The micro is very compact and weighs noticeably less while having more than enough power.
 

Foxton Gundogs

Admin./,Cedar BC
Messages
12,653
Reaction score
3,672
Location
Cedar
It's just like firearms, no sense packing a 460 Wby if you can only stand recoil from a 270, or a 10ga but are only comfortable with a 20. You have to be comfortable with your equipment, it doesn't matter how big fancy and powerful it is if you cant shoot it.
 

Bow Walker

RUFF N TUMBLE "LEGEND" IN MY OWN MIND.
Messages
38,291
Reaction score
3,006
Location
6000 Kms Away From Home.
The thing with archery is that it is - by nature - and up-close-and-personal style of hunting. So to take Jim's analogy a bit further you certainly do not need a 70lb draw weight when as little as 45lbs will kill any deer-sized animal.

My hunting bow is set for 56lbs (I turned it down from 60lbs) and I am confident in hunting deer, black bear, and even elk with that set up.....although I have to say that if I were to hunt elk with my bow I would want to have it reset to at least 60lbs, but not much higher than that.
 

IronNoggin

Stone Cold
Messages
4,963
Reaction score
3,726
Location
Port Alberni
Cocking draw weight of my Matrix 380 was tested in a scale. Runs just a hint over 285 pounds.
Standard for the 380 is 260 lbs, so I have what is termed a set of "Hot Limbs" apparently.
I do not know anyone who can cock it without a rope cocking aid.
When I first got it, I could run 50 or so shots in a day without too much issue.
Now days, I am down to around 30 or so before the back starts to tell me to pay attention.

Al that power is useful though.
There have only ever been a couple of deer it did not pass right through.
The giant Mulie in Alberta (shattered the offside upper leg bone into pieces) and a doe last year (cut the vertebrate in half).
I would not hesitate to use it on any North American Game sans a Grizz or Polar Bear.

I hear what you said above above the lack of practice BW.
No-one who follows that kind of routine will ever hunt with me.
Well over 3,500 shots out of that bow, and I can pretty much tell you exactly where she is going to hit.
All the way out to 100 yards that is.

Cheers,
Nog
 

wideopenthrottle

Long-Time Member
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
433
Location
New Westminster BC
I recently got a used matrix and am still quite new to it all but one thing I noticed was the few "flyers" I had always seemed to be when hand cocking with out the string cocking aid so even though I can draw it back by hand I will only use the cocking aid now...
 

Bow Walker

RUFF N TUMBLE "LEGEND" IN MY OWN MIND.
Messages
38,291
Reaction score
3,006
Location
6000 Kms Away From Home.
Hand cocking a crossbow can sometimes be a bit dicey. Especially if you are not locking the string in the exact center......this can - and will - throw your accuracy off a bit.

Were the fliers the ones resulting from when you hand-cocked the bow or were they just random?
 

wideopenthrottle

Long-Time Member
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
433
Location
New Westminster BC
it was not something i noticed the first time i used it as i was cocking both ways randomly and getting poor results....on the 2nd time i used it, i was only doing the cocking aid and making sure the arrows were pushed in tight getting much more consistency... then i tried a hand cock and it was the first poor shot....it made sense to me that if i used my hands i might not pull evenly and cause some side load that would affect accuracy but i wanted to ask the experts here
 

Big Lew

This IS My Life
Messages
7,267
Reaction score
2,723
Location
Mission B.C.
People can correct me if I'm wrong, but the only 2 possible reasons I can think of as to why someone would need
to cock a crossbow with their hands when hunting would be if he had somehow lost his cocking rope, or if he thought
he had only a few seconds to take a shot at a close animal and didn't think he could use his cocking aid in time.
 

russm86

Well-Known Member
Messages
524
Reaction score
56
Location
Kamloops
You should look at the Centerpoint Sniper Elite 370. Cabelas has them for $450 and anywhere you look, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Amazon, etc you will see nothing but hundreds of positive reviews. The only common complaint is the trigger, which there is an upgrade for. That particular crossbow is a compound so has cams but there is a trick to "lock out" so you can change everything without a press. After a TON of research and not wanting to break the bank, I ordered one. Will hopefully be able to give some feedback in the next week or two.

Also, FYI, I had an Excalibur Equinox and wasn't impressed with it. Found it too big and bulky, mostly with the width of the limbs, for a ground blind, you'd really have to be careful of how close you were to the sides of the windows or walls of the blind so a limb didn't hit it when release. I found mine very finicky and temperamental and had nothing but issues with it accuracy wise. The big benefit of the compound (cammed) crossbows is the smaller/narrower foot print, again especially with the limbs that you don't want to hit things with. Some of the higher end cammed crossbows are like 30" narrower than some of the big recurves this makes a huge difference in a small ground blind or even in thick cover/forest. The centerpoint is not even close to the narrowest compound crossbow but its decocked width (when it's widest) is still narrower than Excaliburs smallest offering fully cocked (when its narrowest) and the excalibur is 3x the price.
 
Top Bottom