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Heritage and way of life

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Round Boy

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I post this as an effort to create some honest thought and feedback. I do not want this to be a thread about native / aboriginal bashing.

Recently as many know a lawsuit was filed regarding lost guiding opportunity and the grizzly hunt.
As well, there has been a lot of news about aboriginal rights to hunting and self government. Most if not all claims by groups claiming rights to hunt, trap , and fish, include words like heritage, way of life, family history of harvesting, etc.

It strikes me that this being Canada, and our courts being what they are and seemingly willing to apply a lot of weight to claims of heritage and history in granting rights, perhaps we need to approach or current situation from a different angle?

Hunting and fishing is part of my heritage. I could stand in front of a judge and talk for hours about what I have experienced since I can remember about life as a hunter gatherer. How to care for and preserve our bounty. The whole family was involved. I bet a lot of you could do the same. Is this not our heritage? Our history? Our way of life? getting nutrients from the land?

I honestly believe that its worth a try to ask a judge to give consideration of such an argument as our way of life is disappearing and it falls to government to recognize it and work to ensure we don't lose it.

Am I off my rocker?
 

Bow Walker

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My grandfather hunted, my father hunted, and I hunt. Each has passed on the heritage of hunting to the succeeding generation(s).

If that is not as much of a "heritage" as the indigenous population have (and enjoy) I don't know what is....

It can be argued that hunting/fishing was a necessary way of life way back "when" but that argument holds no water in this day and age - in my opinion. These days hunting is a right for every individual to either enjoy or ignore - it is certainly NOT necessary to survival as it was in earlier days.

Therefore the sport of hunting should be considered a right of heritage for ALL residents of Canada, not just one ethnic group. That is discrimination, and (I believe) would be arguable in a court of law.
 

CanuckShooter

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The aboriginals rights to hunt/fish/trap/gather etc etc are legally recognized [recognized and affirmed] in the Canadian Constitution. It's a legal matter of rights recognition that isn't extended to all Canadian citizens. Not even to all Canadian aboriginals [as defined under the Constitution 1982].

I don't think anyone would have any success arguing heritage rights in front of any judges in Canada. Just my opinion, but I'm pretty sharp.
 

gcreek

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I think the best way I have heard this issue described was from an old friend who grew up and worked with and his extended family is now married into the natives of the Bella Coola valley. He turned 90 last fall.

The words were, "When they gave the Indians the right to drink and vote, they should have given them the right to pay taxes and buy a hunting licence too".

Sure would have lessened the animosity and differences the law makers are capitalizing on now.
 

CanuckShooter

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I think the best way I have heard this issue described was from an old friend who grew up and worked with and his extended family is now married into the natives of the Bella Coola valley. He turned 90 last fall.

The words were, "When they gave the Indians the right to drink and vote, they should have given them the right to pay taxes and buy a hunting licence too".

Sure would have lessened the animosity and differences the law makers are capitalizing on now.

That was : On 31 March 1960, portions of Section 14(2) of the CanadaElections Act were repealed in order to grant the federal vote to status Indians. First Nations people could now vote without losing their Indian status.

For some of us that wasn't all that long ago.........and really wasn't much of a political threat as by that time they were severely outnumbered in any votes. Long live democracy!!
 
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like ''animal farm'' all are equal, but some are MORE equal than others.............
when my IRISH ancestors were ''dumped '' on islands in the St.Lawrence river with nothing and in adverse conditions, until the govt. of the day were sure they had not brought the plagues from the old country,hell only the healthy young survived..dah!!!..the old,very young either died of starvation or froze to death..........mabe we should try a class action suit against trudhole's gang.....but then,they were IRISH....
who the HELL cared..???:No need to say more:No need to say more:No need to say more:Lips Are Sealed:
 

KH4

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I understand the feeling around the fishing and hunting community, but those on the outside of it see the 'heritage' argument/statement as dressing up "we have always done it, therefore we should continue to do it"

If all hunters start using that argument, does it really hold water? I started hunting a few years ago, therefore I don't really have a family link or heritage to hunting in North America. Some might have that argument, but I do not, and I know lots that have just started hunting. So, is it your heritage or hunting heritage as a whole that's important.

I do agree, that that argument used by first nation groups to place themselves above resident hunters is sad.

One thing to keep in mind, is the FN did not ask for the gbear hunt to close, but their still able to harvest, so at least somebody can hunt them! Same goes for the pinnipeds....if we use the model of working together, some benefit can be gained from FN harvests when we're all really against the gov't.

not disagreeing with above at all, same sentiments, just throwing some points out there.
 
Thread starter #13

Round Boy

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I was going in the direction of Canadian Heritage as well as family. It seems to me, that how this country was created, right or wrong, native or not, hunting and gathering was a way of life. Trapping, hunting and fishing was rooted deep in our culture. It was passed on thru generations.
Harvesting of Waterfowl, Whitetail, and Pickeral were a big part of our sustenance. It was conducted in a manner that put significant resources in our larders. All the children were taught harvesting techniques. How to render the bounty and preserve it. Gutting, plucking and stuffing ducks into milk cartons. When the fish were in, the entire family traveled to the river and filled there possession limits. Fish were cleaned, filleted and frozen in water for later consumption.
The Fall was harvest season. When the snow flew it was Whitetail season. Again, harvesting and storing of our bounty was imparted on all and everyone participated.
After that it was Red Fox and Snowshoe hare.
How is this not something Canadians should be proud of and preserve as part of their heritage?
Does the Federal Government have a duty to recognize this and have the mandate to preserve our wildlife and ensure that the Canadian way of life of our predecessors is preserved and passed on?
 

Foxton Gundogs

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like ''animal farm'' all are equal, but some are MORE equal than others.............
when my IRISH ancestors were ''dumped '' on islands in the St.Lawrence river with nothing and in adverse conditions, until the govt. of the day were sure they had not brought the plagues from the old country,hell only the healthy young survived..dah!!!..the old,very young either died of starvation or froze to death..........mabe we should try a class action suit against trudhole's gang.....but then,they were IRISH....
who the HELL cared..???:No need to say more:No need to say more:No need to say more:Lips Are Sealed:
I'm in but I'm 1/2 Irish and 1/16 Northern Cheyenne, I want a bigger piece of the pie. But seriously this country would not exist as we know it if not for hunters, trappers, "yanderers" and adventurers. My Great, Great Uncle was a trapper and a "yonderer", my Great, Great Grandfather was a trapper and hunter for the NW Company and the Railway, My other Great, Great Grandfather was a Mountain Man and took a Cheyenne wife. My Gramps was a Market hunter. My Uncle was a Game Warden and my Dad a trail guide, Sounds like my heritage to me.
 

gunseller

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I believe that FN people in Canada like here are being used by the anti hunting groups. The more non FN hunters are stopped from hunting the less new hunters there are to stop laws that stop hunting. Before long the FN hunters will not be hunting.
Steve
 
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like pawns in a chess game,. sacrificed when no longer needed .....BUT until then, a valuable player.

times change and memories fade........Liberal /democratic teachings in schools change the way ''history really happened'' to ''what is ''nice''.
back in the time of our ancestors (Yep, we had them too) ya worked to live and stay alive....if you were REALLY
lucky,you got or took 1/2 a day sunday off to rest.




 

Foxton Gundogs

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I believe that FN people in Canada like here are being used by the anti hunting groups. The more non FN hunters are stopped from hunting the less new hunters there are to stop laws that stop hunting. Before long the FN hunters will not be hunting.
Steve
I would hazard a guess that there are as many or more Whites carrying on the traditions of OUR HERITAGE, than there are Indian Hunters.
 

Bow Walker

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I'm just a bit saddened and down-hearted that I have no "seed-of-my-loins" to pass this heritage on to.

It will have to be the offspring of my brother who benefits from my collection (hoarding) of hunting gear..... :Oh Yeah!: :victorious:
 

KH4

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I would guess that the difference would be about 5 times as many
But there's more non-FN to begin with, and non hunters out number all hunters, FN or not. A per-capita basis would be a more useful statistic, not sure if non-FN hunters per capita would be on the upper side of that statistic, but would be interesting to know. In BC, the combined population of about 2-3% buys hunting licences each year... I thought there was a number floating around 97,000.

Just being a jerk because I work in statistics :P
 

IronNoggin

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I'm just a bit saddened and down-hearted that I have no "seed-of-my-loins" to pass this heritage on to.
Nor do I BW.
But I very much take heart in the number of Young Guns I have introduced to our sport over the years.
And the fact that the vast majority of them have turned / are turning into men I would hunt with any time. :Oh Yeah!:

Cheers,
Nog
 

KH4

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the last I heard it was about 105,000. LMFAO
you're right, the best I could find was this, funny how it's easy to find in AB, but in BC we hide the number...

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016FLNR0303-002878

Quick Facts:

  • Sustainable hunting contributes over $350 million to the B.C. economy.
  • There are over 105,000 resident hunters in the province generating an estimated $230 million in economic activity each year.
 
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I'm just a bit saddened and down-hearted that I have no "seed-of-my-loins" to pass this heritage on to.

It will have to be the offspring of my brother who benefits from my collection (hoarding) of hunting gear..... :Oh Yeah!: :victorious:
nothing wrong with that DAN,. some of your blood and DNA runs thru his veins and that makes him kin !!!!!!
 

Finaddict

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5 times as many? Maybe equal or close to equal but come on...how do you figure 5 times?
Good question Oly, Here is what I gathered and my logic.
  • Numbering 232,290,Note 1 17% of the Aboriginal identity population in Canada lived in British Columbia in 2011. They made up 5% of the total population of that province.
  • Almost one in four Aboriginal people in British Columbia resided in Vancouver although they represented only 2% of the total population living there.
  • British Columbia was home to 155,020 First Nations people, 69,470 Métis, and 1,570 Inuit, with the rest reporting otherNote 2Aboriginal identities (3,745) or more than one Aboriginal identity (2,480). From 2006 to 2011, the First Nations population in British Columbia increased by 20%, while the Métis population rose by 17%, and the Inuit population nearly doubled.Note 3
  • Of those who identified as First Nations people in 2011, almost three-quarters (73% or 112,405) reported being a Treaty Indian or a Registered Indian as defined by the Indian Act of Canada. One-third (33% or 51,045) of all First Nations people (44% of First Nations people who were Treaty or Registered Indians, or 49,730 individuals) lived on a reserve."

232,000 natives, 50% female, so few licenses in that group, probably 25% urban population so of the 116,000 male natives maybe 80,000 rurals, of which probably 25% are under 15 years old or over 70 so very few hunters there, probably 1/3 of the rest actually hunt (my own speculation, based on much higher hunter rates than the general population of B.C. ) so I am guessing that there are about 20,000 active native hunters, and there are there are 105,000 hunting licenses in B.C.

105,000/20,000 = 5.25
 

CanuckShooter

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Good question Oly, Here is what I gathered and my logic.
  • Numbering 232,290,Note 1 17% of the Aboriginal identity population in Canada lived in British Columbia in 2011. They made up 5% of the total population of that province.
  • Almost one in four Aboriginal people in British Columbia resided in Vancouver although they represented only 2% of the total population living there.
  • British Columbia was home to 155,020 First Nations people, 69,470 Métis, and 1,570 Inuit, with the rest reporting otherNote 2Aboriginal identities (3,745) or more than one Aboriginal identity (2,480). From 2006 to 2011, the First Nations population in British Columbia increased by 20%, while the Métis population rose by 17%, and the Inuit population nearly doubled.Note 3
  • Of those who identified as First Nations people in 2011, almost three-quarters (73% or 112,405) reported being a Treaty Indian or a Registered Indian as defined by the Indian Act of Canada. One-third (33% or 51,045) of all First Nations people (44% of First Nations people who were Treaty or Registered Indians, or 49,730 individuals) lived on a reserve."

232,000 natives, 50% female, so few licenses in that group, probably 25% urban population so of the 116,000 male natives maybe 80,000 rurals, of which probably 25% are under 15 years old or over 70 so very few hunters there, probably 1/3 of the rest actually hunt (my own speculation, based on much higher hunter rates than the general population of B.C. ) so I am guessing that there are about 20,000 active native hunters, and there are there are 105,000 hunting licenses in B.C.

105,000/20,000 = 5.25
112,405 would be the appropriate figure to use in your calculations, not 232,000, as the rest have to buy licenses and tags...and report hunts the same as the rest of us. I like how you were thinking though.
 

Finaddict

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112,405 would be the appropriate figure to use in your calculations, not 232,000, as the rest have to buy licenses and tags...and report hunts the same as the rest of us. I like how you were thinking though.
Good point CS, that would make the hunting license to Treaty hunters ratio much higher, perhaps as high as near 10 to 1
 

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